EXCLUSIVE: Interview with Jaswant Singh.
By Raaghav Sharma
LONDON/NEW DELHI: I was on a flight to Delhi from London, earlier this month. There were many things on the agenda during my brief stay in India. But engaging one of India’s most respected politicians, Jaswant Singh, for an interview was far from my mind at that moment.
As soon as I had placed my hand luggage in the baggage compartment, and settled into my seat in the executive class (for which I now need to fork out an extra few hundred pounds, due to a bad back) the lady seated next to me began chatting.
She asked me “how is the Business Class lounge of Air India?” because presumably she hadn’t been able to go there as she was running late. I told her I found it to be quite nice actually, compared to some of the other ones I had been to.
Next she asked, whether I lived in Delhi. I replied that I resided in London. Soon the conversation veered to the Aam Aadmi Party–a recent phenomenon in Indian politics that has captured the imagination of the middle class and the Indian media. The flight attendant passing by also joined in. And as it often happens in discussions amongst Indians, everyone had to have their own unique perspective.
Till finally, the flight attendant left us saying, “We need a revolution in this country to end corruption!”
The rest of the flight was mostly uneventful. And I even managed to get some sleep, little realising that the so called poll fever had caught me during the long-haul flight itself.
A week passed in Delhi, as I witnessed the frenzy of a country moving towards an election to vote the next government in matter of just over a month. The mood among the people was almost palpable and infectious with everyone stricken by election fever. Politics was on everyone’s lips. I got infected by it too as the world’s largest democracy began to gear up to elect the next government in a massive voting exercise.
It was with this excitement running in my veins, compounded by the fact that I would be posing questions for Mr. Jaswant Singh, that I arrived at this former Indian army officer’s home cum office at 11 o’clock sharp in the morning.
I had been told after arriving in Delhi that most senior politicians were refusing to give interviews to journalists, because the “Model Code of Conduct” had come into force. (A set of rules laid down by the Election Commission for politicians to follow).
I found that a bit strange on two levels. Firstly, why should a “model code of conduct” be expected from Indian politicians only a few months before elections? Rather than throughout their political career? Secondly, politicians around the world are hungry for media attention particularly at election time. So why would their Indian counterparts go in the opposite direction when the code of conduct doesn’t forbid it! The answer to that probably lay in the fairly recent fascination of the Indian media with sensationalism. And the nature of electoral contests in India. So I was very relieved when Mr. Jaswant Singh had promptly agreed for the interview.
The man with the rich baritone voice had held key Cabinet portfolios of Finance, Defence and External Affairs during the NDA government – a coalition led by the Bharatiya Janata Party between 1998 and 2004. There were a number of issues that I wanted to cover with him. But since I hadn’t been told how much time was allotted to me, I had simply listed them, and was hoping to go over as much ground as possible. The senior BJP leader told me that due to his tight schedule I had half an hour to complete my Q&As.
Since the interview was to focus on issues concerning India and the United States of America and I had just heard the news that charges against the Indian diplomat Devyani Khobragade had been dropped, I decided to open the interview with this issue. So with western classical music playing in the background, I began the interview by asking:
Sir, what is your viewpoint on the Devyani episode?
With respect to this incident we need to find a way, so that we don’t face such issues. If any of the diplomats has come, inadvertently, into the wrong, it is the requirement of the mission proper (Indian Embassy) to correct it. But to arrest somebody with accreditation is a wrong sort of reaction from the United States of America. I believe that the court has now dropped it. And that’s a welcome decision, a welcome step forward. But there are other aspects that have to be resolved. And of course India and the United States with maturity, should find a method, or a way, so that these don’t happen again.
Sir, to follow up on that, should this kind of practice be allowed in the first place. I mean, having a “Maid in Manhattan”, because this is not the US government that has done this. It is an issue with certain interest groups within the United States. And there is nothing to stop them from coming at you again and again on this.
No, no; it is a practical requirement for diplomats who are working abroad because they have duties to perform. And domestic help is always a help! Why should they not have domestic help? I think the Government of India and the Ministry of External affairs has to address itself to the practical aspects of this particular requirement.
But does that do damage to the image of the land of Mahatma Gandhi?
Not at all, Gandhi had many to help him. To have somebody in your domestic staff is a necessity. You need a cook, you need a cleaner. Gandhi had peculiar food requirements, and there were cooks who cooked for him. Even when he lived at the ashram or. lived elsewhere.
Aside from this issue, how would you describe the Indo-US relations?
There are two novels by Charles Dickens. Great Expectations and Hard Times. So that is what the relations are currently going through; but this thing happens between countries. We should have sufficient maturity, because there is at least a stable relationship which is now going through a phase of quietude. It will happen. You can’t all the time have white hot intensity of relationships. There are some unfulfilled aspects of this relationship. For example India (needs) to fulfil certain obligations of the civil nuclear agreement. There is a much closer defence relationship now. So with foresight and maturity “the relationship” is one of the principle platforms, or planks of India’s foreign policy.
(I pondered for a moment that “Hard Times” is probably the shortest novels written by Dickens. Then went to the next question.)
The US has been quite keen on India opening up its financial sector to…
Depends what you mean by opening up…
I mean sir, in the context of the global financial crisis. Allowing Wall Street entry into India. Would that be a good thing or a bad thing? Without a thorough review of the regulatory framework. In hindsight of what has happened.
No, I think there is a fair regulatory system in existence in India. But the global financial crisis of 2008 didn’t really affect us. We managed it much better, and that is now history.
Is it?
Yes it is, or there could be (pauses) another version of that crisis which might strike global finances. I am not a professional economist.
I would thank god for that! Look at the mess they have created!
(Laughs) No, but I think we are not as dependent. We are not an export driven economy. So I think we will manage.
One would think that to recover, they would need to move into places like India.
Yes of course. Investment from the United States of America, considering its size and its economy is not what it ought to be. Is it because the United States is “restrained” in its investments in India? Or is it that the climate in India is such that it does not encourage investment. What is commonly believed is that the “climate” is not very encouraging. So if the investment climate is a deterrent to investment, then that is our domestic challenge. It’s not an Indo-US challenge.
Could you share your views on foreign direct investment (FDI) into India?
See, in FDI the difficulty arises in multi brand retail. That eventually, in 10 to 12 years it will come is a different matter. At the moment I don’t think our retail trade can absorb such a competition. And we shouldn’t give some kind of quality quotient to FDI in retail as a good, or that if we don’t have it, as a bad. I don’t see it that way. In the U.K. and also in the US, the “superstore” concept in retailing is facing a stiff challenge from online selling…
Yes indeed it is happening. In India too we see manifestations of this. I think the advent of Flipkart…
That’s right. Why shouldn’t Indians be able to access such (sites) of their own on-line trading.
That’s when the phone rang. Shatrughan Sinha, an actor from the Bollywood film industry and now a senior BJP leader was on the line. With the conversation paused, I briefly pondered on the last answer. If the superstore chains can’t get full access to Indian markets for another 10 to 12 years, and large on-line sellers are already gaining market share. So when they were to come, would they still have enough space for themselves?
This was a very critical time for the 2014 elections in India, as the final list of candidates who would contest for the Lok Sabha was being finalized. Meanwhile, the largely one sided telephonic conversation continued. With Mr. Jaswant Singh saying hmm…hmm…yes…hmm with occasional short, crisp and courteous suggestions. But as it went on, I began to wonder if there would be any time left for me to continue the interview. However, after almost five minutes, he called off and turned to me, apologizing for the interruption.
There are 2 questions that I do want to ask. I can leave out the others such as energy security, etc. One is, India has wanted to become a Permanent Member of the UN Security Council for some time…
This is the Indian railway compartment syndrome. Those that get inside the compartment don’t want others to enter. There might be people that say “Yes! India should be a member.” But those that are inside the compartment have locked the compartment.
But my question is a little different from that sir. And it’s a hypothetical question – If India “was” a Permanent Member of the UN Security Council. Which way would it vote if sanctions were to be placed on Iran.
If I had anything to do with it, I would certainly not agree to sanctions on Iran.
I thought you will not answer that! And the other one is more academic on Rajya Sabha which is based largely on the House of Lords concept…
No, it’s not House of Lords. It’s a bit of a mixture between the Senate and the House of Lords. It’s not ideally, one or the other. It does fulfil a certain useful purpose. Slightly deviant from the originally conceived purpose of senior citizens finding a place to aid and advise the Government and country. That is now less.
But going forward, should members of the Rajya Sabha, who are not directly elected, be in ministerial positions?
Yes they ought to be, that shouldn’t be a bar. But what is not correct is that (the members of) Rajya Sabha can be from anywhere in India. Earlier the name “Council of States”, you had to belong to the State for it to be possible to (becoming a member). But you can’t cheat with it, like Dr. Manmohan Singh has been claiming that he lives in Assam! And he has been Prime Minister for 10 years….
You then are defeating the whole purpose…
Of democracy. It’s not democracy.
Sir, one last personal question. Do you have any recollections of Chelsea Clinton when she stayed with you at your ancestral home? (During an official visit of President Clinton)
(Smiling) Oh yes, so many…so many.
She enjoyed her stay with you?
Very much.
Did you manage to meet again after that?
Not recently.
xxxx
With that I got up and thanked him for the interview. And after a brief exchange, I left his office and went to the residential side of the bungalow. Because when I had requested for an interview Mrs. Jaswant Singh had asked me to meet her before leaving.
An unassuming Rajput lady with a natural charm, somehow she reminded me of my mother whenever I met her. And since I had lost my mother fairly recently, I was really looking forward to meeting her.
So when we sat down and started talking about everything and everybody under the Sun, the tension just drained away from my body. Eventually, we started talking about life in the Army since my father, like Mr. Jaswant Singh, also belonged to the armed forces. She spoke about how her husband still maintained a military lifestyle, and that her friends were mostly from the “army days”.
Without realizing, quite some time had passed and I had noticed that other guests had been coming in. So I took her leave somewhat reluctantly and got up to leave. Like a true Indian host, she walked me out of the house, which made me feel a bit embarrassed, so I touched her feet and begged her not to come out.
As I walked in their driveway to where I was parked, a peacock crossed my path. Unmindful of its own beauty and grace the bird had its focus on finding something to eat, completely oblivious to this highly charged atmosphere of elections.
That’s when a thought crossed my mind. This peacock, and for that matter the American Eagle, know exactly how to go about their lives. While we on the other hand, have so many questions, and so few answers.
Then, I left. My stomach had started rumbling again! I had to confront the Delhi belly and brave the traffic before I could reach home and the comfort of my rest room. As I was surrounded by a sea of vehicular chaos I thought to myself, that if this is the way people drive, it is a reflection on their personality and culture, then India as a Permanent Member of the UN Security Council, might end up vetoing itself.
(An alum of the Indian Institute of Foreign Trade, New Delhi, and the University of Westminster, London, Raaghav Sharma is a writer based in London.)