Interview in New York with India’s best-selling author.
By Natasha Israni
NEW YORK: He has been included in Time magazine’s list of 100 most influential people in the world. Chetan Bhagat, India’s biggest-selling English-language novelist, has sold over a million copies of each of his books. But his novels about India’s young middle-class professionals have also presented a curious dichotomy.
Bhagat’s writing has been severely criticized as mediocre, even being termed ‘a necessary evil’. On the other hand, he is credited for expanding the entire market for Indian writing in English. All his novels have been turned into films, including the blockbuster ‘3 Idiots’, based on his novel ‘Five Point Someone’. The latest caper based on his book, ‘2 States’, stars Alia Bhatt and Arjun Kapoor and released April 18th.
Bhagat was in New York recently to promote the film. In a hearty conversation, he talked about the new movie, his writing process, the 2014 Indian elections, his political aspirations and more. Excerpts from the interview:
Other books of yours have been turned into films, but ‘2 States’ seems to be more directly associated with your own life. So when we go and see the film and watch the lead character Arjun, how closely is he based on you?
I think you should just watch like whatever you find in Arjun; I’m a better a dancer, I’m more handsome, better lover basically, I think that will be a good way to put it all in perspective. (Laughing) But seriously, I think it is based on my life but it is a Krish Malhotra – Ananya Swaminathan film, that’s the name of the characters. There was an element of fictionalization; I didn’t write a memoir of my marriage. It is a novel. So Arjun is playing Krish Malhotra, which is inspired by my life. But he doesn’t have to match me to that extent, because he has to match the character.
You’ve emphasized that the book is not a memoir. But it is based on your experience. How would you quantify it, how closely is it based on your experience?
So all the main plot points are correct. I did meet my wife in IIM. The college campus you see is IIM Ahmedabad. It’s in fact the first film that has ever been allowed to be shot in that college, which is a very serious college actually. My wife is a Tamil Brahmin. I’m a Punjabi. We did do our MBA. We did get jobs in different cities. And our parents weren’t too happy about the fact that we’re not from the same community. And then we did eventually get married. So that core plot is from my own life. But to make a dramatization, and to make it more fun, there’s a lot more of that happening. I think Arjun is a tough one to do because he not only has to be a good actor in the movie, he has to realize that there’s some real person on which this is based. So it’s quite a tough job.
And how do you think he did?
I think he’s done really well. For example there’s a song, ‘Iski Uski’, it’s a Punjabi song at a wedding, and he’s dancing. Now his earlier films are ‘Gunday’, ‘Ishaqzaade’, he’s very macho. So he could have easily switched into that Bollywood star mode. But the way he’s dancing, it’s a Punjabi dance, but very nerdy. Like somebody who’s very real and doing those steps. They’re not larger than life. So I think he’s done the right balance.
And Alia?
I’m stunned. The presence she has, whenever she comes on the screen in a promo or in a song, you just can’t look at anything else. And I think she has the potential to be a very big star. And I think it’s a big asset to the movie. Today Alia Bhatt is a big draw for ‘2 States’. We’re very lucky to have her.
A bigger draw than Chetan Bhagat’s book?
Chetan Bhagat’s book has been there for five years. It’s helping. Chetan Bhagat’s book is helping. But a film has to look beautiful for people to put money out of their pockets and say – I know the story, I’ve read the book, but I’m going to watch it. Why? Because the actors, the setting, everything is beautiful, beautiful, beautiful. And Alia is the beauty of the movie.
When you give the rights of the book to a film, how does it make you feel? Is it like letting go of a baby? And did you get an opportunity in ‘2 States’ to get closely involved with the film?
It used to feel like a baby being given away. But I’ve learnt to not let me feel that way — that it’s my baby and it’s gone. Now what’s going to happen? I now feel like it’s my daughter, which has grown up and is getting married. Yes, so it is my child being given away still. But it’s what needs to happen. It needs to be given away to be able to make a movie. If they have to check with me on everything, they’ll never be able to do it. But on the key issues, like the casting, the director, the main things of adaptation, they check with me. Main departure points from the plot they will check with me. Here there has not been much departure. In fact, they followed the book quite closely. But I do let go. Otherwise, I’ll never be able to write new things. And so I let go. And the fun is that when it’s ready I come and if I like it, I promote it.
There was a controversy in one of your earlier films – ‘3 Idiots’. The controversy was about the author credit for ‘Five Point Someone’ and where it was placed. How has your experience been overall with Bollywood?
Bollywood is a learning curve and I’m still early on that learning curve. And I’m still learning. Because it’s a tough place. Because every film is a project involving fifty-sixty people who are very crucial to the project. ‘3 Idiots’ was my first film contract. And maybe I didn’t have the clout at that time. I was a new writer. I didn’t have that clout. Today it’s totally different story. ‘2 States’ is named after the book. They’ve sent me to North America to promote it. It’s very different. And it’s a matter of also the kind of people you work with. They’re very secure I think. They’re the biggest production houses. UTV, Dharma, Nadiadwala. And they are very secure where they are in life. They know they’ve made the book. They want to highlight that, they want to use it to market it. I think it’s smart marketing. But it’s also gracious to acknowledge the source quite well, which didn’t happen as much in ‘3 Idiots’. And I think it was largely because of my being new there.
For you as an author – you see these characters on paper. And then to see them visually, what does that do for you? At this stage, because of the success of your earlier, when you are writing a new book now, are you also visualizing it, thinking this is going to be a movie one day?
I try not to do that, because then it will dilute. If I have to write a movie, I will straight away write a movie. And all that I’ve written, they have made it into movies. Like ‘Kai Po Che!’ was not a very movie-able, like a very film-able kind of film. But they did it in Bollywood. Even ‘Hello’ was call center based, they did it. So I think I just have to do my stories and if they’re good stories, they will make them. But yes, first time when I see the first scene, or the first promo, or the first photo shoot, it’s very surreal, like this one especially. Because it’s not just my book, it’s based on my life. So I told Alia (Bhatt), I found it initially very difficult to talk to Alia. Because I met her on campus, my own campus, they were shooting the film in my own college. And I saw Alia there, wearing the same kind of clothes, which my wife wore. So it’s bizarre. If somebody is playing your girl-friend from the past and you see them again. So it took me a while. Now I think I’m able to get to terms with it. But it’s a feeling I think very very few people feel. And it’s hard for even a writer like me to describe it. But the closest is that you feel like you’ve entered an alternate world. It feels like back to the future. It feels like you’re on a time machine.
Related to that, say the film doesn’t do well, or say it does spectacularly, how does that impact you, regardless of what happened with the book?
It affects me. Because today a lot of people have expectations from the movie because of me. And my readers will judge me. They’ll say — why did you allow this to happen? Now I can’t keep explaining to every one of them that I can do only so much. I don’t make the movie. So if it is successful, it’s largely due to the filmmakers. And if it’s not successful, it’s largely due to the filmmakers. It’s 80% them. But 20% is still me, who could have maybe exercised better judgment, or raised an alarm, or something. So it is something if my name is on it, a lot of people are buying this movie ticket because it’s a Chetan Bhagat book. Then I want to make sure they have a good time. So, success of the film is very important. I get very devastated if it doesn’t do well.
This time, in ‘2 States’ you said they were not many plot departures. But if you saw an earlier edit of the film, would they have accepted any changes you suggested?
I think that is a very late stage. Once the movie has been shot, unless you find something horribly wrong, it’s very late because you’ve already shot it. The time to make those comments is at the script stage. And in this movie they had made the book. So there wasn’t much. And I liked the scenes. But you can still – if you really don’t like it, there are limited options available if the final shooting is done. Then you can only play around with the edit a little bit. But I hope that that never happens. The idea is that even before the script, you spend a lot of time with the makers, the director, the producer to figure out — what do they get out of the book? What are they trying to make? And if there’s a matching there, then it will happen.
I did want to go on a couple of other topics. I believe your children asked you about the kissing scenes in ‘2 States’?
Yeah, because the promos are playing on TV and they know it’s based on our life. They know our college and things like that. They’re like — why are you kissing mama so much? And I’m like, it’s not me, it’s the actors and the directors who made a scene like that. So it’s awkward moments. When the book came out, they were very young. Now they are nine, our twin boys. When the book came out, they were three or four. And it was a book, so nothing visible. But now they can see and they’re older, so they ask. So now I’ve to be careful.
In one of your trips abroad, I think it was the Middle East, you said that Non-Resident-Indians (NRIs) only exist, they’re not really living. Is that what you said?
I was saying that in the context, well maybe in Dubai. But I think what happens is that you get into a very settled mode. An NRI often gets a dollar salary and it’s everything that Indians ever aspire to. And they get very settled. And then over time, they start feeling that stagnation. They start feeling that they’re not really alive. They’re living and they’re existing. But they’re not really alive, they’re not feeling that spark. Because they’ve stopped challenging themselves. They’ve just kind of gotten into a settled life, going to office, going to NRI parties. And there’s some emptiness in them. So in that context I was saying that.
But wouldn’t that happen with anybody? Like it could happen to an Indian too?
It could. But India somehow has a power to engage you a lot. Our TV and our politics and the context of where you live and every day is a struggle. So you will be reminded of your existence. Whereas abroad, it can get very static. Every day can be very similar to the previous day. India doesn’t have it as much. And also in India there is a struggle for survival. So it’s less so. When people are comfortable, these are high-level concepts. When you’re comfortable, your basic needs are met, then are you challenging yourself? Are you feeling passion? I think that’s the context.
How has it been in terms of your readership? Do you get a lot of response to your books from the Indian diaspora?
I’m a speaker also. I do motivational talks. Less in North America, but I’ve done talks for example in the Middle East a lot. And there are literally thousands of people who show up. So I think the books are very popular there, and also now the movies. And even here, I remember there was a time, now of course the books are available everywhere. But a few years back, people would say that when you go to India, bring pickles and Chetan Bhagat books. So it was one of the things NRIs did. Because the first book was on IIT. So many IITians here, so many MBA graduates, so many engineers, even if you’re not from IIT. So a lot of people related to that.
Not so much lately, but a few years back you said you were proud to not necessarily be a literary author, but an author who was loved by millions. And there was this exchange of sharp words with Salman Rushdie. How do you feel about that topic now a few years later? Is that something that still weighs on you when you continue to get criticized for your writing?
You know you’re right. It was something that affected me a lot few years ago — the criticism. The kind of being unable to find my place in the literary community. I guess the fact that I was saying those things means somewhere down the line I was feeling insecure, that I needed to say I am happy, I’m this and that. Today I’m in a good space. I know what I am. I’m not a very literary writer. I’m not as talented as those writers. But I have some other talents, which is to reach a lot of people, which is also a valuable thing to have. And I know my place. And I just don’t need to prove myself so much. But I think those were days where I was still trying to find my footing. And I was being judged a lot, and I felt I was really being judged. Today I’m just handling it better. I think age makes you much better, more mellow. I’m just older and less firebrand than I was five-six years ago.
But it’s also success, regardless of what people were saying?
Maybe. So I’m more secure. I mean there is this happening (gesturing to the film poster of ‘2 States’) — what do I have to prove any more, right? So in that sense, it does help, yes.
But do you ever as a writer worry about your writing? Say you write a column or your next book and when you still get that criticism regarding your writing, does that affect you?
Yes of course it does. There is no human being I’ve met who doesn’t. India’s biggest politicians, or India’s biggest stars, whenever I hang out with them, and I don’t do that a lot, so I’m not name dropping; I often find that they always have some pet peeve against someone who said something unfair and unfairly criticized them. So I think even the biggest guys get affected by criticism, so who am I?
Does that change the way you write?
Not much. But yes, sometimes why criticism hurts, there is some truth in it. If it’s totally untrue criticism, then it won’t hurt you. Say for example, I give my political views. And if somebody writes on twitter, they will write anything, they will say – “oh he sold out, he gets paid by political parties.” Which is nonsense, I know it’s nonsense. I know I can make a lot of money just writing fiction so I don’t have to do those things. So that doesn’t hurt me. But if someone says his writing is not like literary, it’s true. It’s not like they’re lying. But what I’m trying to say is — so what if it’s not? I’ve done so many other things. And then that’s a sign of insecurity, when you need to prove yourself. So I think I take the right criticism. I’ve slowed down my writing to make sure that it’s of better quality. A fast selling, best-selling writer will produce a book every six to nine months in the West. I do it once in three years. Whereas I know that there’s a wave right now. If I do a lot of books, there will be a lot of movies. But I am pacing myself, because even in the popular genre, I want to maintain a certain quality.
Would you like to write a very literary novel?
I would like to, yes I would — one day. But if it happens, it happens.
Is there a topic that you’ve been thinking of?
I think as I get older there will be. I mean a literary novel, it’s not just the language, it sometimes may not be very mass-y. Like this is a very mass-y story because it’s a pure love story. I may do something which is very narrow but I want to do it. And I want to get to that stage where it really doesn’t matter. I am doing what I want to do and I’m happy with whatever audience that generates. In the sense that today, success matters. If the next book comes, they will say the last book did so much; this book didn’t sell so much. ‘Kai Po Che!’ did so much business, ‘2 States’, the business. The business has to stop mattering and that’s when you really evolve.
And you feel like you’re not exactly there at the moment in terms of it not mattering?
Yeah I’m not there. It’s very important for me that this film does well. I think all of us want success. But I think it’s less important than it was five-seven years ago. I would rather have a good film, which does a little less business, than a film that is not good but does a lot of business. I’ve reached that stage. The priorities have changed. The film has to be good, the business follows later. But it’s not like – only the film has to be good, I don’t care about the business. I don’t think I’m there yet. The business has to be good.
Are you working on a new book?
Yes. It’s a rural love story. That’s all I can say and it’s going to come out in Diwali. So I’m just taking a break from that book now to promote this film. That’s my next project. I will not tell you where it’s set yet. I’m working on the edits.
You evolved from an investment banker to an author to a motivational speaker and columnist. How do you feel about that journey overall? I know it’s a large question, but especially about this motivational speaker aspect, it’s a very different curve from an author.
It was and it was totally accidental. I gave a speech once somewhere called ‘Sparks’. And I put it on my blog. And it became viral and got forwarded. It’s still there on the net. And from there I started getting invites and it turned into almost like a professional speaking career. And I found that even though I was writing simple love stories and masala stories, somewhere down the line, the youngsters were getting very inspired. And I thought – let me see if I can do that in a different format? Because each book takes two-three years. So I saw when I gave talks, a lot of youth were enjoying it and they were getting benefit from it. And you’re right, it’s very different, it’s got nothing to do with writing really. But it’s got something to do with directly connecting with people. And I think I have that gift which comes through in the stories, in the books, in the movies. And also when I’m in the live audience. So I genuinely care for people and when you genuinely care for people, it shows in your work. And it gives me some satisfaction to do a live, touching people live on stage. Because books are read alone.
Would you like to do a TED talk?
Yes I would like to do it. But not TEDx. I would like to do the main TED, one day.
So when you’re preparing a presentation, tell us a little bit about it. You use power point presentations?
Yes, from my banker days. But those power points are not like the typical power points with a lot of bullet points. I use just a few key words. My idea is that I try to tell people about my own life and what all lessons I’ve learnt. Cause I’ve had an unusual life. I’ve seen a lot in a short span of life. I’ve seen the competitive exams, the banking, the NRI life, the Bollywood life, the writing life, family life, kids. And all that has taught me a lot about what works, what is success, what is struggling, what does striving mean? And if I am able to articulate it properly, people benefit from it.
Tell us about the NRI life, when was that?
Well, I was working in a bank after my MBA. So eleven years I was in Goldman Sachs in Hong Kong. I was even in New York. It’s ironical. When I joined Goldman Sachs, they sent us for training to New York for two months. And the training was at the Pierre hotel where we are today. That was fourteen years ago. And today I’m back at the Pierre but talking about ‘2 States’. So it’s quite a strange experience.
You’ve been quite vocal about your opinions on the Indian elections, including Rahul Gandhi. You’ve written a column about Narendra Modi. Would you tell us how you’d vote?
No. I give a lot of opinions and I give a lot of criticism and praise of various candidates. But the essential stance is to not to take sides. Because tomorrow there could be something happening which maybe I don’t like what they do. So it’s action-based, policy-based support. And I want youngsters to be politically aware, and more and more people to come and vote. So if I’m a popular figure and I talk politics, they get involved in it. Whether they agree, disagree. But the idea is just political engagement for people. But especially now at this election time, I will not say who to vote for.
What are you particularly watching in this election? What to you has been the most fascinating aspect?
I’m watching the behavior of the youth in terms of their voting patterns and what do they vote for. Because we have some very interesting choices this time. There is the whole Modi mini-wave of sorts, which is talking about getting India’s pride back, economic growth, restoring minimum governance. There is the Aam Aadmi Party, which has just come up, which is talking about removing corruption. But a very populist kind of agenda they have. And there is the Grand Old Congress, which is also saying we will change and Rahul is saying they’ll change. But maybe they’ve lost faith; people don’t trust them so much. So I think these three are very interesting and how India votes is going to tell me what India aspires to. So let’s see.
You called Aam Aadmi Party the item girl of politics…
That’s something, after they did the dharna, and after they did the policies. I have also praised them a lot when they were coming up in Delhi. I have also urged people to really give them a place in our political system. But I think the point at which they put India behind and promoting their party ahead, I feel uncomfortable. I have issues with that. So that’s exactly the point – where I could praise somebody and then when they are….I called them an item girl because sometimes to become popular, you lose credibility. And that’s what item girl is, is very popular, but it’s not a great career move sometimes. And that’s what I was trying to signal. I was trying to signal in a very catchy way and something that really hits the point. And the fact that it’s still talked about, means it really stung them.
You say you care about the Indian youth. And you care about India clearly. Do you think you would ever use your influence at one stage in the future, have you ever considered joining politics?
Yeah I have. Even this time I was considering. But I just didn’t think right now I was ready for it. I’ve not shaped myself to be ready. And there are so many other things I’m doing, so I’ll have to give those up. Because it’s a pretty 24/7 life. But maybe in ten years.
What would draw you to it, if you ever took the plunge?
Just to be able to change, to be able to do something for the youngsters. Why am I sitting here today? Because it’s the youngsters of India who have chosen me as their voice. And it’s the ultimate customer service. I better do something for them. I mean I can keep making movies, which they enjoy and that would be fine too. I think they will not expect more. But why not do more?
You’re the largest selling author ever in Indian history. Clearly you’ve contributed in a big way to the habit of reading, amidst the youth. Whenever you hear that description about yourself, beyond just writing books, but in terms of raising readership, what does that mean to you?
I think that’s big. And not just raising readership, it’s also raising readership for a class of people who don’t normally read English books. I have constables, drivers, those are the people who read my books now. You never expect them to read English books but for Chetan Bhagat, they’ll say I know a little bit of English, maybe I can read this. In tribal areas, I’ve seen in tribal schools, they use my books to teach English. We just had an order from Slovakia, where they were teaching Slovakian citizens English and of all the books in the world, because they could have gone to America and UK authors, they ordered 500 ‘2 States’, to teach English to people. So that kind of thing was really unintended. But I think that’s mainly because the English is very simple.
You’ve talked about your writing process in the past. But is there any aspect that’s less known? Not about what you write, or what motivates you to write, but your actual process. Where do you sit and write, where do you go?
I travel out. I think what is less known is it’s very difficult to be an artist and have a family and kids and a working wife who works at an investment bank. That’s quite difficult. So I have to compartmentalize my life a lot. And I travel to write and do things like that. Because in a city like Mumbai, it’s crazy and I have immersed myself in other activities. So literally I have a calendar and I have blackout dates I’m not available and then those blackout dates I write. I leave Bombay. I go to Goa, I go to Delhi, now sometimes I even go abroad. In Goa, maybe a hotel or even someone’s house or something, yeah.
How many hours at a stretch would you write?
If it’s a writing day, I would write for five hours a day. And if it’s not a writing day, I still try to write half-an-hour, one hour. (Global India Newswire)
To contact the author, email to editor@americanbazaaronline.com